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Jun 17 2007, 02:25 PM
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Extremely Active Member Posts: 541 Joined: 13-September 05 From: Cary, NC USA Member No.: 2992 Using LabVIEW Since:1997 LV:8.5 ,8.2.1 ,7.1.1
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Jun 17 2007, 02:25 PM
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Jun 17 2007, 06:57 PM
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#2
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Drawing Tool - LVOOP example application Premium Member ![]() Posts: 1159 Joined: 29-January 06 From: Helsinki Member No.: 4014 Using LabVIEW Since:2004 LV:8.5.1 ,8.2.1 ,7.1.1
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Seems like an interesting project. Unluckily I cannot use this library in any work related project because of the virality of the GPL license you have used
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Jun 17 2007, 07:56 PM
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#3
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Extremely Active Member Posts: 541 Joined: 13-September 05 From: Cary, NC USA Member No.: 2992 Using LabVIEW Since:1997 LV:8.5 ,8.2.1 ,7.1.1
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Seems like an interesting project. Unluckily I cannot use this library in any work related project because of the virality of the GPL license you have used Tomi, Without getting into a religious war about licensing If you, for instance, are working inside a corporation as an agent of that corporation, then distributing your software within that corporate entity does not fall under "distribution" as the GPL defines it. I want to heartily encourage people to use my library in situations like this. If, however, you are distributing those work products to others commerically or outside the corporation you create them in, then I specifically want the code to remain free. The correct license for a situation like that is the GPL. If you have a suggestion of a better license to use that meets the above criteria, I'd be interested to discuss it. Also, if you have a specific situation you would like to use the library in that the GPL prohibits, please contact me -- I may be willing to license it under different terms on a case-by-case basis. Thanks! -------------------- If you don't like this post, you might also not like my widgets!
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Jun 17 2007, 08:41 PM
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#4
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![]() Extwemely Active Premium Member ![]() Posts: 1592 Joined: 23-January 05 From: Here Member No.: 1431 Using LabVIEW Since:2003 LV:7.0 ,7.1 ,.
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I don't think I will use this (for one thing I don't have 8.x and for another I don't really need image manipulation), but I do hope to take this as an opportunity of learning from an actual LVOOP example.
-------------------- More than meets the eye...
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Jun 17 2007, 08:46 PM
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#5
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![]() I'm a LAVA, not a fighter. V I Engineering, Inc. ![]() Posts: 3634 Joined: 13-October 03 From: Michigan, USA Member No.: 181 Using LabVIEW Since:1993 LV:8.5 ,. ,.
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Without getting into a religious war about licensing Is there any other kind? My company prefers to use BSD components, as they're easier for us to include in commercially release software (everything we write). GPL and LGPL are a little more restrictive, and I think (I don't want to put any words in Jim's mouth) this is why OpenG dumped LGPL in favour of BSD. -------------------- ![]() Tags
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Jun 17 2007, 10:58 PM
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Extremely Active Member Posts: 541 Joined: 13-September 05 From: Cary, NC USA Member No.: 2992 Using LabVIEW Since:1997 LV:8.5 ,8.2.1 ,7.1.1
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I don't think I will use this (for one thing I don't have 8.x and for another I don't really need image manipulation), but I do hope to take this as an opportunity of learning from an actual LVOOP example. yen, I think that's a great idea. Honestly, I don't use ImageMagick very much (mostly scaling/rotating/format conversion) but it struck me as a great project to force myself to do a larger-scale LVOOP design (there are about 26 classes in all, and most of them inherit from a single base class): There's a method in Command Line Operator.lvclass and its descendents called Translate to Command Line Operator.vi that is overridden in probably 20 different child classes. It's responsible for all the magic of building the cryptic ImageMagick incantations. LVOOP makes that single method beautiful to implement. -------------------- If you don't like this post, you might also not like my widgets!
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Jun 18 2007, 07:35 AM
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![]() Confucius say, Man with tight trousers is pressing his luck. Admin ![]() Posts: 2320 Joined: 13-October 02 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 2 Using LabVIEW Since:1994 LV:8.5 ,8.2.1 ,7.1.1
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Moderator Note: The Code repository has a bug which caused this file to be currently unavailable. This will be fixed ASAP and the download will soon be available.
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Jun 18 2007, 08:13 AM
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#8
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Drawing Tool - LVOOP example application Premium Member ![]() Posts: 1159 Joined: 29-January 06 From: Helsinki Member No.: 4014 Using LabVIEW Since:2004 LV:8.5.1 ,8.2.1 ,7.1.1
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If you have a suggestion of a better license to use that meets the above criteria, I'd be interested to discuss it. Also, if you have a specific situation you would like to use the library in that the GPL prohibits, please contact me -- I may be willing to license it under different terms on a case-by-case basis. Actually GPL license is almost never used in a library. GPL licesne forces any project that uses such library to be of GPL license as well. So it's not only about keeping your library modifications open source and freely available but also about forcing all the work that uses that library to become open source and freely available as well. You surely understand that this is a very restrictive license term for a library. I prefer BSD licensing as well. However if you are not comfortable with BSD licensing, please take a look at my post about LabVIEW library licensing below. Open Source Licensing of LabVIEW packages, How to license LabVIEW Open Source Packages Tomi -------------------- Tags
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Jun 18 2007, 02:03 PM
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#9
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Extremely Active Member Posts: 541 Joined: 13-September 05 From: Cary, NC USA Member No.: 2992 Using LabVIEW Since:1997 LV:8.5 ,8.2.1 ,7.1.1
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Actually GPL license is almost never used in a library. I'm not sure that's true. On the contrary, I think it's used in thousands of libraries, is it not? GPL licesne forces any project that uses such library to be of GPL license as well. So it's not only about keeping your library modifications open source and freely available but also about forcing all the work that uses that library to become open source and freely available as well. You surely understand that this is a very restrictive license term for a library. As I said above, I do understand that. (dons religious armor) Part of this matter is a difference in perspective. What you see as a "very restrictive license" I see as a very permissive license. You can do anything you want with the GPL code, with the single caveat that you must do so under the banner of creating Free Software. I don't find that restrictive at all -- what it restricts is only your ability to impose restrictions on others. (removes religious armor) Let me be clear that I understand the need/purpose for different licensing schemes. I understand why OpenG moved to BSD, and I fully (tacitly) supported that move. I have released other code (in other languages) under other licenses, and I've chosen to release this specific library under the GPL for the reasons above. I know what that means to people who want to use it, and I also know that there's a great deal of both dislike and misunderstanding about the GPL (for the record, I don't include you in that -- I'm speaking more generally). I prefer BSD licensing as well. However if you are not comfortable with BSD licensing, please take a look at my post about LabVIEW library licensing below. I appreciate that you've clarified the different types of open source licenses and the (OSI certification is important to some extent), but I don't see that the linked post adds much new information for me. My position is still the same as what I stated before (emphasis added): If you have a suggestion of a better license to use that meets the above criteria, I'd be interested to discuss it. Also, if you have a specific situation you would like to use the library in that the GPL prohibits, please contact me -- I may be willing to license it under different terms on a case-by-case basis.
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Jun 18 2007, 04:10 PM
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#10
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![]() I'm a LAVA, not a fighter. V I Engineering, Inc. ![]() Posts: 3634 Joined: 13-October 03 From: Michigan, USA Member No.: 181 Using LabVIEW Since:1993 LV:8.5 ,. ,.
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...it restricts... your ability to impose restrictions on others. Right - and I'm in the game of system integration where a lot of what I release is proprietary to both my company and my client - we're not going to be releasing that code as open source anytime soon, so the GPL license that you've imposed therefore restricts me from using your library in my projects. -------------------- ![]() Tags
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Jun 18 2007, 04:39 PM
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#11
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Extremely Active Member Posts: 541 Joined: 13-September 05 From: Cary, NC USA Member No.: 2992 Using LabVIEW Since:1997 LV:8.5 ,8.2.1 ,7.1.1
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Right - and I'm in the game of system integration where a lot of what I release is proprietary to both my company and my client - we're not going to be releasing that code as open source anytime soon, so the GPL license that you've imposed therefore restricts me from using your library in my projects. Understood. That was the balance that was kicking around in my head when I was deciding the licensing. In this case, I fell on the side of software freedom rather than size of potential audience. The ensuing discussion is by no means unexpected For someone in your situation, I would suggest that you might still be able to find use for my library. One of the hardest parts of using ImageMagick is working out what in blazes your command line should look like. The Execute ImageMagick Process.vi routine in the library (which is what actually makes the magic(k) happen) outputs the command line string that's executed: ![]() Anyone can, for instance, use my code as a development aid to work out what their ImageMagick operations need to be, and then mangle the resulting command line into a Format Into String (or any number of other things) for their situation under almost any license they want (subject to the ImageMagick license, which is very permissive). I find that working out ImageMagick incantations by pushing VIs around beats command-line gymnastics by a wide margin. -------------------- If you don't like this post, you might also not like my widgets!
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Jun 18 2007, 04:51 PM
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#12
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Changing the world, one VI at a time. Premium Member ![]() Posts: 1665 Joined: 22-October 02 From: San Francisco, CA Member No.: 17 Using LabVIEW Since:1995 LV:8.2.1 ,8.5 ,7.1.1
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Right - and I'm in the game of system integration where a lot of what I release is proprietary to both my company and my client - we're not going to be releasing that code as open source anytime soon, so the GPL license that you've imposed therefore restricts me from using your library in my projects. The GPL limits the end users' rights to impose new restrictions (beyond the GPL) on the rights of downstream licensees. I don't think that Justin was implying that the GPL is without restrictions Definitely, I believe that GPL'ing LabVIEW reuse libraries is going to significantly limit the user-base and collaborators, but that is the choice of the author However, it does give people an opportunity to test the software and use it in some ways. And, if they want to use it outside the GPL, they can always negotiate new terms with the author(s). Several companies earn a living this way -- it's called the dual-licensing model. Thanks, Justin, for this wonderful gift to the community! Cheers, -Jim -------------------- Tags
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Jun 18 2007, 04:56 PM
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#13
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Extremely Active Member Posts: 541 Joined: 13-September 05 From: Cary, NC USA Member No.: 2992 Using LabVIEW Since:1997 LV:8.5 ,8.2.1 ,7.1.1
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As a self-and-LabVIEW-promotional note, this library has been added to the official list of ImageMagick APIs.
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